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Wrap

Text File | 1994-06-05 | 25KB | 870 lines

Lines: 819 Chat length: 47438 bytes Number of participants: 56 Participants: AFA Pieter, AFC Donna, AFC PeterS, AFL Bear, AFT Ilene, AlbyC8, Alexis Kai, Andy9137, ArtyGeorge, BerkSysPr, Boss111, Chesterguy, ChuckS26, Command N, DangrMous, DaveKam, DJM mass, EarlChr, FrogPower, FWAustin, Garroche, GIACOBAZI, Hankpro, Hest, JCupano, JHChajes, JimTrascap, Jpelo, JULIE B 72, Lavalas, LeslieG1, LightBane, LilyRudy, LONDON1813, MacTar, MarcRes, MGoBlue, MIKEL617, Norm1942, ORBIS, PatLWorko, Piddipat, PixelAce, RES22, Rmassey77, RUBY K, StantonS, STARMAKER1, Stephen560, Steven9329, TJLogan, TugOne, Urbane, Useful, WannaLAN LightBane : I have an NEC CD-ROM drive, and recently, I've bought an IBM Compatible with an internal. I was wondering how I can get the driver for Mac, since I have a Mac that doesn't have a CD ROM yet IC ;> The drivers that I had were for IBM AFL Bear : Is it a SCSI CD drive? LightBane : Yes, External AFT Ilene : You should be able to get the NEC Mac driver from them... I think AFL Bear : I can't find it in QuickFind - does anyone know if its on-line anywhere? LightBane : Does NEC have a forum on-line? AFL Bear : No, I don't think so. AFT Ilene : I don't think the newest NEC driver is posted yet, and don't know if it can be LightBane : OK... I think I'll call them then ;> AFA Pieter : You have to order it direct from NEC or download it from their BBS I believe. AFT Ilene : NEC's BBS number is 508-635-4706 ONE OF our local users' was told that the password to download is "key" AFL Bear : Great, Geo. :) Ok, people... Welcome to the weekly MOS chat .... Tonight's topic is... the evolution of the Macintosh Interface... Or "Can you use NT?" :) As usual... AFA Pieter will host the chat, with me stepping in as needed for crowd control.... (For you unruly types.) AFC PeterS will take care of the queue.... And Donna will make sure you are properly greeted. :) And without further ado, over to you, Pieter! AFA Pieter : Well once again, tonight╒s topic is the evolution or de-evolution of the Mac OS and related topics. So with that out of the way, Peter who has a question. TJLogan : Has anyone shown any interest in licensing the Mac OS? AFA Pieter : Last I heard, several Taiwanese vendors were working with Apple to license the Mac OS AFT Ilene : There are a couple of companies that have expressed interest; but can't remember names ArtyGeorge : I think one of them is Canon TJLogan : Do you think there would have been more interest if Apple had done it before Windows took off? AFC PeterS : I did hear about Canon. MIKEL617 : Canon also is using PowerPC Chips. Chesterguy : Was Lisa a desktop environment? FrogPower : Yeah, what WAS Lisa? Chesterguy : All I know is that Lisa Sucked MIKEL617 : The Mac XL AFT Ilene : LISA was the "Mac" you could program on AFL Bear : In its day it was radical. FrogPower : I've always kinda wanted a 128 running Sys. 1 just to see what the original Mac environment was like. Andy9137 : My first computer, that was what Lisa was MIKEL617 : I think a 5MHz 68000 Andy9137 : a damn fine machine if I do say so myself MIKEL617 : Lisa used "MacWorks" for System Software right? FrogPower : 8MHx what do you with all the speed? MIKEL617 : Hold on I'll check my Database.... ArtyGeorge : Lisa was a EXPENSIVE machine..that's all I know... AFA Pieter : Yes and the Twiggy floppy drives were just too weird for description ORBIS : I believe System 8.x is due in 96' is that correct Bear? AFL Bear : That's like saying we'll be on Mars in 96. Maybe, maybe not, but that's what they say at the moment. :) AFA Pieter : I actually have heard 2nd Qtr 95 ArtyGeorge : Is gonna be a dramatically different? metaphor I mean (desktop) ok. Urbane : QuickTime 2.0 When will we see it. What will it do? and will it draw upon my DSP ? GA (& thanks!) AFL Bear : Good question, Urbane? Anyone not under NDA care to comment? FrogPower : What's NDA AFA Pieter : I doubt that it will use the DSP as then it would have to use the ARTA interface. It probably will be optimized for PowerPC AFL Bear : Non Disclosure Agreement. AFL Bear : Well, let's see... MIKEL617 : QT 2.0 will support JPEG compression... ArtyGeorge : I've seen Quicktime 2.0 beta in action...have to say..not THAT impressive... AFL Bear : I believe MacWeek said later this year... Urbane : I've seen an Alpha version on a 7100.... AFA Pieter : Probably August AFL Bear : I would wager in time for 7.5... ArtyGeorge : ok...can anyone tell what would they like to have MORE in their Mac future OS? AFA Pieter : True multitasking and a completely Native finder would be very nice. Chesterguy : In the OS, I would like to see the ability to have true multi-tasking even for programs with no... menu bar ArtyGeorge : definitely more speech and voice stuff...really useful ones. AFL Bear : And Chesterguy named a top pick among heavy users and programmers. Chesterguy : Macuser or Macworld wrote a big article on the future Mac OS, I forget which AFA Pieter : Yes, true multitasking, ie preemptive, would be great as would true protected memory AFC PeterS : I would just like to voice my objection to equating "true" and "preemptive". Cooperative multitasking is just as real, it simply is scheduled differently. GA Urbane : I think it'd be nice to just put the whole thing (system) (inl prot memory) on a ROM SIMM. it's be lightening quick, and you'd use DRAM fro normal extensions... crazy, but nice...GA FrogPower : It seems that in theory true multitasking can only be achieved with two microprocessors. AFA Pieter : Not true at all Frog. MarcRes : Urbane, Atari did it on their ST's. It's crazy. System upgrades would mean changing the ROMs AFA Pieter : UNIX boxes have been doing true pre-emptive multitasking for years and many of them only have one processor. AFC PeterS : OK. There's some confusion between multitasking and multiprocessing. The former can be done with one processor, but not the latter. Also, RAM is faster than ROM, and the OS loads into RAM so the only thing that would be faster with the OS in ROM would be startup. GA. ArtyGeorge : hum..that's a interesting concept (to me)... AFA Pieter : Actually Peter there were a few CPUs designed to execute several instructions at a time independent of each other. Kinda like four CPUs on the same chip AFC PeterS : That blurs the distinction of what a single CPU is vs. multiple CPUs. Good point! :) AFA Pieter : Of course the 601 can execute 2 instructions at the same time, the 604 can do 3 or 4 and the 620 does something like 6 instructions at the same time LONDON1813 : When is update 3,0 coming on AOL.? AFL Bear : Apple has a political problem, and can no longer say when, let alone if. AFC PeterS : London - When Apple gets their &*^$ together. :) ORBIS : Is multitasking to be a feature of Sys 8? or should I just by a UNIX with windows <g> ;) GA AFA Pieter : Well Orbis, you can buy a Sun box and then get the nice new Mac Emulator that Apple just released for Solaris AFL Bear : I think the hardware will have to be made MT- ready for us to see true MT. Does that sound right, PeterS? Hold on, GIA, and we'll call you in a bit. :) ORBIS : Bear, what╒s the cost? AFC PeterS : Hardware? I don't think so. Apps will need to be changed, though. ORBIS : I mean Pieter for the box? AFA Pieter : No, MT is strictly software oriented. However having DMA on the subsystems will make it much smoother JULIE B 72 : a quick ?: what does native' mean in, like, the context completely Native finder? AFA Pieter : Native means that the software was written to talk directly to the new PowerPC processors and is not running in 680x0 emulation mode. basically all it means is that it will run wicked fast on a PowerPC Mac DJM mass : installed 3.0 update-still have screen freeze- what╒s the deal? seems only to freeze w/After Dark when an app is open AFL Bear : DJM, have you seen our FAQ in MOS.... about troubleshooting your System Folder? DJM mass : no but I╒ll go look. AFT Ilene : There were some reported problems with HSU 3.0 too, correct? AFL Bear : It's a good one... DJM mass : any suggestions on possible extension conflicts? AFL Bear : As is the one on performing a clean install. GIACOBAZI : I installed QT 1.6.1 and now I don't get the movie controls? I see the QT logo but no movie controls AFL Bear : Gia, what machine? GIACOBAZI : PB 160 AFL Bear : Gia, try isolating your extensions, and maybe even a clean install. It should work. OK, Gia - We know that QT 1.6.1 and a 160 should work just fine... AFT Ilene : any other suggestions for Gia? AFL Bear : So a clean install should help you get things back in order, then you can add extensions to see if any might be messing up QT. AFA Pieter : You could always download the Conflict Catcher Demo and see if that will help find the problem AFL Bear : True enough.... :) Alexis Kai : Has anyone else heard anything about the new PowerPC 630 chip? AFA Pieter : No, but there is a 615 and a 603+ that are being talked about MGoBlue : NO AFL Bear : Any other comments about a possible 630 chip? Alexis Kai : Well, the 630 isn't just being talked about, its a fairly definite thing. MGoBlue : Sounds like a natural progression. AFA Pieter : The 615 is the IBM chip that contains a on chip x86 translator and the 603+ is a 603 with a much larger on chip cache AFC PeterS : At this stage, the 620 is far enough away that talk of the 630 is moot. The 603 is now in question! GA DaveKam : All I've heard is 603, 604, and 620 which we all KNOW are coming out, anyway... AFA Pieter : Yes the 603 is just too slow to do decent 680x0 emulation. The on-chip cache is simply too small AFC PeterS : (It's a cache-poor chip.) AFA Pieter : Actually the emulator on the 601 drags down that chips performance significantly as most other applications never get access to those caches and thus are stuck using the much slower secondary or level 2 cache MGoBlue : The 603 is small for the PB Steven9329 : I have a couple of questions. I have a Q950. What is the largest VRAM I can add? DaveKam : Probably 2MB AFT Ilene : 2MB definitely for the Q950 AFL Bear : 2MB is correct, DaveKam Steven9329 : So I must buy 256K 80ns VRAM? 512K won't work? AFA Pieter : Because the Q950, Q900 , 800, 840 and 700 all used the 256 VRAM SIMM design. The PowerMac 7100 and 8100 both use a video card that can take either 256 or 512K VRAM Steven9329 : I also heard that the latest 8100 will NOT have any VRAM AFC PeterS : No, that's the 6100. The 8100 does have VRAM. Steven9329 : So, that means you must buy a video board? AFA Pieter : Well the 8100s and 7100s PDS video card take VRAM, the logic board video is DRAM based The video board comes with either the 7100 or the 8100 AFT Ilene : 8100 has 2 MB of built in VRAM AFL Bear : Whew! 'dats a lotta vram. And a topic for MHW, too! AFA Pieter : On either the AV or the normal PDS board. The non-AV board can take an additional 2MB of VRAM Steven9329 : Why did Apple do that to the poor PPC? AFT Ilene : 'dats a lotta Mac! AlbyC8 : 1) What could cause Prodigy to freeze up? 2) Is it true that a fluorescent light can cause jumps in data on a RGB 14" apple color monitor? AFL Bear : :0 I have no idea how to help with your Prodigy issue... AFT Ilene : Almost anything can cause Prodigy to freeze up!! :-) AlbyC8 : Prodigy keeps telling me its an extension conflict, but I don't have any extensions. AFC PeterS : I think *running* Prodigy causes it to freeze. AFL Bear : But fluorescent lamps generally don't cause problems with modern computers. :) AFA Pieter : Prodigy is not compatible with the caches on a 040 based Mac. LeslieG1 : ! is it a duo running prodigy? AlbyC8 : I've got a IIsi which is an '030 machine AFA Pieter : Or more precisely, do you use an Apple Express Modem? AlbyC8 : No I have a Supra Fax Modem 144LC. AFL Bear : Alby - is it a complete freeze? No cursor/pointer movement? AlbyC8 : Sometimes it is and sometimes the cursor still moves but the screen is frozen. AFL Bear : Well, you can rule out your System by booting from a Disk Tools floppy and logging on. If it still freezes, try reinstalling Prodigy... If it still freezes, I dunno. AlbyC8 : The only real extension I use is Disinfectant 3.5 INIT and Super Clock. Could those be a problem? AFL Bear : Yes, SuperClock might be... AFC PeterS : What version? AFL Bear : But you could have other types of problems that booting from Disk Tools would rule-out. DaveKam : I though 4.04 fixed most problems. AlbyC8 : V 4.0.4 AFL Bear : Yeah, but P* is real weird with the menu bar, or at least it used to be. I haven't seen P* software in ages. AFC PeterS : Try without SuperClock! AlbyC8 : I just clean installed the system folder too. AFC PeterS : Ahhh, who needs Prodigy, anyway? :) ! = ; ? = AFL Bear : Alby, the Disk Tools test will tell you if your System Folder is involved. AFT Ilene : SuperClock 4.0.4 should be ok; but check Disinfectant! AlbyC8 : So a fluorescent light shouldn't affect the monitor? AFC PeterS : (Alby - no.) MGoBlue : Anyone know of a utility that will convert a TIFF or PICT image to a single shot QuickTime movie? DaveKam : GraphicConverter should... AFL Bear : PhotoShop? MGoBlue : Developing an app that requires it in the database. AFL Bear : Isn╒t a PICT saved as QT JPEG the same thing as a 1 frame moov? AFA Pieter : You might also try DeBabaleizer MGoBlue : Prefer not to use a $700 app for a simple database. DaveKam : (Also, GraphicConverter is shareware and online) MGoBlue : Is it scriptable? AFA Pieter : I think that Video Graffiti and VideoFusion will also work AFL Bear : Is which scriptable? MGoBlue : Either? AFL Bear : I don't know, in any case. Anyone? DaveKam : Me neither.... AFC PeterS : GraphicConverter? I doubt it. I can check... AFL Bear : I would doubt it, though. Thanks, Peter.... While you check that... JULIE B 72 : there is some new display stuff in graphic this week. DaveKam : Do files need an aete rsrc to be scriptable? MGoBlue : Thank you, at least I have a direction to go now. DangrMous : Does anyone know if you can set a 7100 to turn on at a preset time with the CPU control panel and how? And what's the contest? Alexis Kai : DangrMous, I think that's physically impossible. AFA Pieter : I think that you can use the startup timer software that worked on the 840av, but I am not certain AFC PeterS : DangrMous - Look into the Sophisticated Circuits PowerKey. AFA Pieter : Peter that wont work as the 7100 does not have a physical power switch unless you can lock it on. Piddipat : I have a PowerBook 180. can I download system software from AOL? if not, where can I get it? AFL Bear : No, sorry, Piddipat - 7.1 is not downloadable. If you need replacement disks, your dealer or. 800-SOS-APPL should be able to help you. AFA Pieter : From Apple. As you will need to run System 7.1 which is a commercial piece of software. Since you have a 180, you should be able to get it for free from the Apple Assistance center AFL Bear : Apple would probably send replacement media without charging the $99, though. Alexis Kai : How could you get a 180 without the System attached, anyhow? Piddipat : thanks! PixelAce : Are the Apple Personal Diagnostics worth 90 bucks, or is MacCheck just as good. AFA Pieter : Pixel, I do not know as I have not used them.. If you get them from a mail order house, they usually have a 30 day money back guarantee AFC PeterS : MacCheck is no longer supported. I'd go for DiagSoft's Peace Of Mind. DangrMous : Does anyone know if there is a new MacCheck for PowerMacs. My old one causes my 7100 to crash. DaveKam : APD is more of a hardware check. MacCheck is software. (I think that is correct) I mean - MacCheck CHECKS software. AFA Pieter : And Snooper will probably be orphaned soon so it will be between Apple and Diagsoft AFL Bear : Mous, barometric changes make MacCheck crash. AFC PeterS : No, MacCheck is a HW check, mostly. Snooper *is* orphaned. EarlChr : My Mac needs a reality check, not a hardware check. DangrMous : What's a barometric change Bear? AFL Bear : What's the queue, Peter? barometric, I meant. Air pressure. or barometric. AFA Pieter : No CP was working on an upgrade a few months ago right before the Symantec buyout MacTar : I'm having a problem renaming a hard drive, any suggestions ? AFL Bear : Is File Sharing on? MacTar : File sharing and virtual memory both off AFL Bear : Do you have the latest Disk First Aid, MacTar? MacTar : let me check... Hest : Mac Tar should try something like Deskzap. AFL Bear : It came with Software utility 1.0.1 If you don't have it, try Unlock Folder. MacTar : I can get it , I have Mac Tools also but haven╒t tried it yet. Thought it might be something simple I was overlooking AFL Bear : UnlockFolder is in our Third Party software library, and is real tiny. Hest : like typing return when it is highlighted AFL Bear : It fixes a bug that sometimes locks the HD name. Or at least unlocks the drive that the bug locks. MacTar : Thanks !!! AFL Bear : to fix the bug, you need the HSU 2.0.1 or 3.0 PixelAce : I have installed Apple System Updater 3.0 and have been having all sorts of funky problems. apple talk is off, virt mem if off, file sharing off, my problems seem to be with launching programs write now crashes at startup with a error 1 message, and I've been having problems with rendering. AFL Bear : If you do a clean install and add SU 3.0, does it still crash? PixelAce : yes. I have installed it 3 times now, just in case some of my problems are alleviated by turning on apple talk but not all TugOne : ! I haven't had any trouble with updater 3.0 on an 8100/80 AV ! PixelAce : I╒m updating an 840av AFA Pieter : Worked just fine on my 8100/non-AV AFL Bear : I've heard of some non-specific problems, but don't have any details to offer. Serious enough, supposedly, to call for a bugfix release. But it's really only a rumor at this point. PixelAce : I guess I'll switch back for now, and keep my fingers crossed for 7.5 Garroche : I just got AppleScript with HyperCard. Can anyone recommend a source of good scripts? AFL Bear : If you find any, Garroche, upload them to the AppleScript SIG in MOS, ok? GA, Tug. AFA Pieter : Tao of AppleScript is a great book. Any Danny Goodman book for Hypercard HyperCard TugOne : Well I was going to suggest application of MacsBug for the 6100 with launching problems. And I wanted to ask if anyone has received the plaintalk installer disks for the AV machines from Apple AFL Bear : Good suggestion if the user can utilize it properly. TugOne : The CD didn't have the plaintalk stuff so you need to get the disks from Apple. Hest : I had the desktop file on a HD disk get messed up. Is there any way to fix it? AFT Ilene : ! Desktop reset is a shareware utility - you can rebuild desktop from scratch. Hest : I tried deleting it. I saved the data with ResEdit. But can I do it another way? Even on a non Startup disk? AFA Pieter : TechTool also forces a complete Desktop rebuild as well as a few other things. Yes, it can do tall mounted volume. Well at least those that mount at startup That help hest JCupano : Laserwriter 8.X.X...is there a stable version out yet ? AFC PeterS : 8.1.1 is stable here. AFA Pieter : The latest version seems pretty stable. What issues do you have with the existing version? JCupano : It chokes on some PS level 2 stuff. AFA Pieter : Lots of things choke on some level 2 code. JCupano : For ex. Quark (with all the patches added) PixelAce : This really isn't a question about System Software, more like Hardware. Are the PowerMacs in their current incarnation upgradable to a 604 when the time comes. I know that the TNT's are supposed to be when they come out. AFA Pieter : Yes and No. There may be a PDS card or a logic board upgrade, but the 601 and 604 are not pin compatible so you can't just pull out the 601 and drop in a 604 as was originally hoped AFC PeterS : Pixel, we don't know until the 604 Macs come out, as far as I know the plan is Yes, only as Pieter describes. PixelAce : well I heard it said that the TNT's were plug and play, and so I was wondering about current machines Thank you. AFA Pieter : TNT is likely going to be a 601 based system, however it will be a PCI based bus. BerkSysPr : Is there a Windows equivalent to a program that will allow one to create stand-alone documents (like Docmaker)? AFL Bear : Acrobat? Does that count? BerkSysPr : Shareware/freeware AFA Pieter : Yes, Acrobat, common ground and the new Farallon product all will work with Windows. BerkSysPr : I am trying to create a down-loadable entry form for this year's After Dark contest, and have used Docmaker to make a Mac one, but don't know what to do for a Windows version that people on AOL or CIS can download. AFT Ilene : A text file won't work? BerkSysPr : If I use a text file, people will be sending in docs of all different shapes/fonts/sizes. AFA Pieter : I would use Common Ground or Acrobat as they both have freeware viewers as does the Farallon product BerkSysPr : I would rather have a standardized form that keeps the same appearance. AFC Donna : Common Ground has a demo that's available here on AOL. I've tried it on a client who had Windows and it worked like a charm. BerkSysPr : I think I will give your suggestions a shot Pieter...thanks.